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Post by brandon on Aug 8, 2018 14:51:49 GMT -6
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Post by lions09 on Aug 8, 2018 15:32:13 GMT -6
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Post by unafied on Aug 9, 2018 4:02:56 GMT -6
Just read the article from the TimesDaily site about yesterday’s meeting.
I REALLY wish somebody would grill the authority as to why this time last year they were saying they would break ground in the spring. I figure there are two possible answers:
1. Somebody (Melson) opened their mouth without even knowing all the details of what was required to make that happen, or... 2. Politics came into play at the state level, and someone or multiple someones are either trying to shut this project down or at least limit what it could be.
I don’t pretend to know which answer is correct. It’s just really disappointing, because in the back of my mind I was always skeptical this would work out, even last fall when everything seemed to be sailing along so smoothly.
Oh, and just to highlight the absurdity of all of this, I love this part of the article. When a couple of folks stopped by the county legislative office to view the environmental study, the office was closed. They were told the employee in charge was “on vacation”. In response to this, “Authority members said they will check to see if the 200-page report can be placed online for public viewing.” Um, it’s 2018, and we have to see “if” the report can be placed online!?
Clown show.
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Post by catscratchfever4 on Aug 9, 2018 13:24:14 GMT -6
After seeing the negative way Huntsville media reacted to this from the beginning, there's no doubt everyone in that city are against Zeroville having anything nice. If this is built as specified, the much smaller VBC would no longer be the THE place for concerts and big events. Huntsville has just spent millions of dollars in renovation of a 43 year old building. If the Ag Center comes to fruition,that would be millions of dollars down the drain. You can bet Huntsville has been throwing their immense political weight around to stop this just like they always do. The Shoals really hasn't had any clout since Ronnie Flippo a few decades ago.
Huntsville has taken almost all of our auto dealerships who used to be big supporters of UNA sports and our local TV station, They've made it impossible for us to ever have any growth by making sure all growth happens there and not here. Oh they offer some crumbs in the form of "spin off" jobs but that won't lead to any growth. The next time there are elections, the entire Shoals population needs to vote for candidates who put US first. The most important thing that needs to be done is to get us out of their congressional district. We will always be Birmingham's Bessemer as long as we are in the Fifth Congressional District. We should make a motion to get in the Fourth with Colbert County, Lawrence County, etc. where we would be the big dawg by far! If nothing else, it might force Huntsville to treat us a little better since removing our 93,000 population would reduce their clout substantially.
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Post by tuna85 on Aug 9, 2018 18:03:26 GMT -6
After seeing the negative way Huntsville media reacted to this from the beginning, there's no doubt everyone in that city are against Zeroville having anything nice. If this is built as specified, the much smaller VBC would no longer be the THE place for concerts and big events. Huntsville has just spent millions of dollars in renovation of a 43 year old building. If the Ag Center comes to fruition,that would be millions of dollars down the drain. You can bet Huntsville has been throwing their immense political weight around to stop this just like they always do. The Shoals really hasn't had any clout since Ronnie Flippo a few decades ago. Huntsville has taken almost all of our auto dealerships who used to be big supporters of UNA sports and our local TV station, They've made it impossible for us to ever have any growth by making sure all growth happens there and not here. Oh they offer some crumbs in the form of "spin off" jobs but that won't lead to any growth. The next time there are elections, the entire Shoals population needs to vote for candidates who put US first. The most important thing that needs to be done is to get us out of their congressional district. We will always be Birmingham's Bessemer as long as we are in the Fifth Congressional District. We should make a motion to get in the Fourth with Colbert County, Lawrence County, etc. where we would be the big dawg by far! If nothing else, it might force Huntsville to treat us a little better since removing our 93,000 population would reduce their clout substantially. Look, I live in Madison. I know all about how Huntsville can throw its weight around. That being said I am not at war with Huntsville. Every city out there is trying to grow and improve. Some of Huntsville's gains are from throwing its weight around some of it is by poor planning from Madison. Madison is surrounded by Huntsville but what does one expect when you announce publicly that you have no plans to expand past x-road to the west of the city. Reckon if anyone beyond that road wants water, sewer, etc ...well they better annex into Huntsville. That's on my hometown...Madison. I watch the news and I did not see any negative reporting but that is my interpretation of what I saw. I believe the Shoals area and Florence have unique gifts and niches that they do not take advantage of. The University is among the best gifts in the area but protecting it, polishing it, marketing it, supporting it sure seems lacking by the representatives of the citizens of Florence...at least this is the impression one sees on many posts. The music recording industry is world reknown. Huntsville is trying to grow their music awareness and performace venues. But Huntsville knows the place to go to have their performers get on the map is the recording studios in the Shoals. Sure any city, Huntsville among them, can have someone open a recording studio but the so called street cred is in the Shoals. Protect it, polish it, market it and support it. OK, there is a big dog on the porch. Want to find ways to fight with it or do you want to find ways to take advantage of it. Want good roads in North Alabama, want jobs in Lauderdale, Colbert, Jackson, DeKalb, Lawrence, Morgan, Marshall, and Cullman counties...then learn to work together. The enemy is not Huntsville. The enemy is a lack of vision and poor planning. Vision is more than a five year plan and don't hang your hat on some politician waving $4mil around just before an election. Makes absolutely no sense to try and further divide the North Alabama region. Too much soap box for me.
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Post by unalions on Aug 9, 2018 21:53:35 GMT -6
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Post by catscratchfever4 on Aug 9, 2018 22:28:55 GMT -6
After seeing the negative way Huntsville media reacted to this from the beginning, there's no doubt everyone in that city are against Zeroville having anything nice. If this is built as specified, the much smaller VBC would no longer be the THE place for concerts and big events. Huntsville has just spent millions of dollars in renovation of a 43 year old building. If the Ag Center comes to fruition,that would be millions of dollars down the drain. You can bet Huntsville has been throwing their immense political weight around to stop this just like they always do. The Shoals really hasn't had any clout since Ronnie Flippo a few decades ago. Huntsville has taken almost all of our auto dealerships who used to be big supporters of UNA sports and our local TV station, They've made it impossible for us to ever have any growth by making sure all growth happens there and not here. Oh they offer some crumbs in the form of "spin off" jobs but that won't lead to any growth. The next time there are elections, the entire Shoals population needs to vote for candidates who put US first. The most important thing that needs to be done is to get us out of their congressional district. We will always be Birmingham's Bessemer as long as we are in the Fifth Congressional District. We should make a motion to get in the Fourth with Colbert County, Lawrence County, etc. where we would be the big dawg by far! If nothing else, it might force Huntsville to treat us a little better since removing our 93,000 population would reduce their clout substantially. Look, I live in Madison. I know all about how Huntsville can throw its weight around. That being said I am not at war with Huntsville. Every city out there is trying to grow and improve. Some of Huntsville's gains are from throwing its weight around some of it is by poor planning from Madison. Madison is surrounded by Huntsville but what does one expect when you announce publicly that you have no plans to expand past x-road to the west of the city. Reckon if anyone beyond that road wants water, sewer, etc ...well they better annex into Huntsville. That's on my hometown...Madison. I watch the news and I did not see any negative reporting but that is my interpretation of what I saw. I believe the Shoals area and Florence have unique gifts and niches that they do not take advantage of. The University is among the best gifts in the area but protecting it, polishing it, marketing it, supporting it sure seems lacking by the representatives of the citizens of Florence...at least this is the impression one sees on many posts. The music recording industry is world reknown. Huntsville is trying to grow their music awareness and performace venues. But Huntsville knows the place to go to have their performers get on the map is the recording studios in the Shoals. Sure any city, Huntsville among them, can have someone open a recording studio but the so called street cred is in the Shoals. Protect it, polish it, market it and support it. OK, there is a big dog on the porch. Want to find ways to fight with it or do you want to find ways to take advantage of it. Want good roads in North Alabama, want jobs in Lauderdale, Colbert, Jackson, DeKalb, Lawrence, Morgan, Marshall, and Cullman counties...then learn to work together. The enemy is not Huntsville. The enemy is a lack of vision and poor planning. Vision is more than a five year plan and don't hang your hat on some politician waving $4mil around just before an election. Makes absolutely no sense to try and further divide the North Alabama region. Too much soap box for me. It actually makes much more sense for us to be in the same district as Colbert, Franklin, Cullman, Winston and Lawrence than Limestone, Madison, Morgan and DISTANT Jackson County. Of course it also doesn't make sense for Dekalb, Marshall, and Etowah to be in the Fourth. Most of this idiotic gerrymandering was caused by racial reasons. I guess I just don't like carpetbaggers anymore today than Southerners after the Civil War. I would bet the house that Bentley, DAMson, University, etc takes every penny they take in from at least 12 or more dealerships back to Huntsville and sponsors UAH, Bob Jones, Columbia and on and on. That money USED TO GO to UNA, Coffee, Bradshaw, Muscle Shoals, Sheffield and Deshler from people like Jim Bishop, Nelda Stevenson, Charles Mullins and other local dealers. It may not matter to y'all but it turns my stomach. I'm not sure if Long-Lewis supports the Lions or UAB.
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Post by catscratchfever4 on Aug 9, 2018 22:48:58 GMT -6
One more thing to remember: If the federal government had started pumping trillions of dollars into the Shoals 60 years ago, we would be the King of the Valley. Simple as that. Huntsville should thank their lucky stars. They received a blessing like very few other cities in America, or anywhere else for that matter, without actually doing anything.
Let's face it, the Shoals has never recovered from the scoundrel in Nebraska and his fellow douchbags who nixed the deal for Wilson Dam and the nitrate plants in 1921. I was just a youngster then.
I guess with the lack of interest the state has had in northwest Alabama over the decades, the Shoals has done just about as good as it can do.
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Post by unafied on Aug 10, 2018 6:30:31 GMT -6
One more thing to remember: If the federal government had started pumping trillions of dollars into the Shoals 60 years ago, we would be the King of the Valley. Simple as that. Huntsville should thank their lucky stars. They received a blessing like very few other cities in America, or anywhere else for that matter, without actually doing anything.
Let's face it, the Shoals has never recovered from the scoundrel in Nebraska and his fellow douchbags who nixed the deal for Wilson Dam and the nitrate plants in 1921. I was just a youngster then.
I guess with the lack of interest the state has had in northwest Alabama over the decades, the Shoals has done just about as good as it can do.
Unfortunately the people of the Shoals haven't exactly had great representation in Montgomery, either. Not when you have "singing senators" and the like that collect a check for 30+ years with little to show for it. When you look at say the 1950s, the Shoals/Huntsville/Decatur were all pretty even as far as population. Redstone Arsenal and I-65 caused both of those cities to make progress (Huntsville moreso than Decatur, obviously). The Shoals area has been playing catch-up ever since. How completely insane is it that the Patton Island Bridge project took 30 years to complete, the four-laning of US 43 has at least been going on for 20 years now, the widening of AL 157 took about as long, etc., etc.? You can't attract much industry without freeway access to other parts of the country, but the Shoals has struggled to even have four-lane highways. I mostly attribute that to the (lack of) representation in Montgomery. As far as Huntsville media... I don't get the Huntsville stations anymore, but when I have the chance to watch them, doesn't it seem like there's less news from the Shoals than there was even 10+ years ago? Do they still have "Shoals bureaus"? Then you have a newspaper that's owned by folks in Decatur. There really isn't much in the way of Shoals-based media anymore. That certainly doesn't help.
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Post by catscratchfever4 on Aug 10, 2018 11:54:32 GMT -6
I rarely watch either. Its always about a shooting here, a rape there, an armed robbery with a shooting and there is mounting opposition in the Shoals to the proposed Ag Center.
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Post by unalions on Aug 10, 2018 12:13:54 GMT -6
It also doesn't help that the Shoals has been split up via gerrymandering. Just look at Melson's district. It's got the northeastern part of Florence with a bunch of rural county precincts in Lauderdale, Limestone (including all of Athens) and Madison Counties and then dips down into northern H'ville near A&M. The district included all of the Shoals back when Tammy Irons was the State Senator.
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Post by catscratchfever4 on Aug 10, 2018 16:48:34 GMT -6
I think politicians do their best to make things as confusing as possible so we won't pay enough attention to complain.
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Post by northalaspectator on Aug 10, 2018 18:20:34 GMT -6
The following is some comments that I have came across from various sources:
The land was owned by the Hyde family of Memphis. I don't have any information about an appraisal, but the tax assessed value was $300K. The land was purchased for $2.6 million through a loan from a local bank. The loan was guaranteed with TVA in-lieu-of tax money in the amount of $100,000 each month. This money formerly went to Lauderdale County and Florence City Schools as well as municipalities in Lauderdale but two of the decision makers, Sen. Tim Melson and County Commisioner Joe Hackworth are brother-in-laws. They both serve on the seven member Ag Authority Board. The Ag Center Transparency Project has been formed in attempt to get some of these questions answered.
It seems 170+ acres of property, off of U.S. Hwy 72, was purchase for $2.6 million from the Robert O & Pamela Hyde family of Memphis. The payment to them was made through a loan, from a local bank, with TVA in-lieu-of tax money as the guarantee. The TVA in-lieu-of tax money comes into the Ag Authority bank account each month as one $100,000 deposit. No payments have been made on this loan yet, so it is assumed to be a construction loan, with the first payment due when construction is completed.
Two parcels were purchased. Parcel #44432 is 5 acres along US Hwy 72, with an assessed value $88,321. The adjoining tract is located directly behind the road frontage, and is 166 acres with an assessed value $213,900. It is listed as Parcel #43759.
Accessed value (current use for tax purposes)of 300k and sold for 2.6mil!
So, $48,833.03 to date has been paid for a Feasibility Study by company called “CSL” (http://www.cslintl.com/our-company/ ), with over 9 months since the first payment and still no results from this study?
Who is paying for the AG Center? School children, municipalities, and the taxpayer! Lauderdale County Schools will lose 240 thousand dollars a year. Florence City Schools will lose 120 thousand dollars a year. Florence and Lauderdale County will lose over 500 thousand a year.
The people will pay for a 2-cent gas tax and eventually a 1 cent sales tax!
The best I can figure is that by using $1.2 million yearly for the Ag Commission, it should result in a cut of $360,000 to the budgets of Lauderdale County and Florence. I believe the current formula calls for 30% of the TVA money to be shared between the two school systems according to student population - - so I suppose Lauderdale County would get the majority.
Work on the Lauderdale County Agricultural Event Center could begin by late summer, Melson said. "We may be doing this thing in phases, but it's going to happen."
The center is estimated to cost around $45 million with a bond limit that could service that amount. The proposal calls for a 10,000-seat venue that would double for concerts and other large events.
In addition, there's the security of a $2.4 million guaranteed revenue stream through TVA in-lieu-of-tax money and Lauderdale gas tax proceeds. officials hope that construction on the 150,000 square feet main building could get underway by late summer.
The feasibility study will help determine what enhancements to the facility are needed, such as the amount of permanent and temporary seating, Hackworth said.
The proposal also has received a commitment from the state's two-year college system's Workforce Development Department. Which will include a $25 million workforce development center operated through Northwest-Shoals Community College.
The Alabama Legislature has approved a bill allowing Northwest-Shoals to receive up to $5 million in matching funds from the Shoals Economic Development Authority for the workforce training center, and Gov. Kay Ivey has committed another $4 million.
The plan from inception two years ago was to have within the center complex an expo/banquet hall building, as well as an outdoor arena and barns to house up to 1,000 stalls.
It’s a 2 cent gas tax (about $900,000 per year) to pay the RSA bond. It was supposed to expire when the debt was paid off (currently 2019). They altered the original legislation, added the $5 million from SIDC to give to Northwest Shoals, took the TVA money from the city and schools ($350,000 to $450,000 per year), ran a legal notice and passed it.
My comments:
They don’t say anything about how big the exhibit and banquet space will be.
If the study comes back and says that 10,000 seat arena is not feasible, but a 4,000 seat is I believe they will go with that.
(According to google arenas in the range of 7,000 to 12,000 cost around 10,000 dollars per seat)
My concern is who pays operating costs how much are they going to be,will the money generated be enough to retire debt and cover Cost going forward.
Why the rush to break ground, any ground breaking before November should help Melson in his re-election bid.
I would like to see a large arena in the area of 10,000 plus. Their plan just seems like it is only work in progress. Unless they can come up with more complete details and possibly another source of payment at this time I would be against it.
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Post by unalions on Aug 10, 2018 18:29:39 GMT -6
Wow. Interesting information up top there. I've read the bottom part in one of the news articles.
As for your comments, I agree. I'm all for this but it seems to be in the beginning phases no matter how "far along" Melson wants the project to appear.
Another interesting wrinkle in this is that Melson's opponent this fall is Hal Self's granddaughter. Bradshaw grad, Harvard educated attorney. Her brother is the new UNA women's golf coach. So, she definitely has connections with UNA athletics. She has an uphill battle in these rural precinct's but Melson isn't doing himself any favors with the slow progress and lack of transparency on this project.
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Post by catscratchfever4 on Aug 10, 2018 21:43:59 GMT -6
The following is some comments that I have came across from various sources: The land was owned by the Hyde family of Memphis. I don't have any information about an appraisal, but the tax assessed value was $300K. The land was purchased for $2.6 million through a loan from a local bank. The loan was guaranteed with TVA in-lieu-of tax money in the amount of $100,000 each month. This money formerly went to Lauderdale County and Florence City Schools as well as municipalities in Lauderdale but two of the decision makers, Sen. Tim Melson and County Commisioner Joe Hackworth are brother-in-laws. They both serve on the seven member Ag Authority Board. The Ag Center Transparency Project has been formed in attempt to get some of these questions answered. It seems 170+ acres of property, off of U.S. Hwy 72, was purchase for $2.6 million from the Robert O & Pamela Hyde family of Memphis. The payment to them was made through a loan, from a local bank, with TVA in-lieu-of tax money as the guarantee. The TVA in-lieu-of tax money comes into the Ag Authority bank account each month as one $100,000 deposit. No payments have been made on this loan yet, so it is assumed to be a construction loan, with the first payment due when construction is completed. Two parcels were purchased. Parcel #44432 is 5 acres along US Hwy 72, with an assessed value $88,321. The adjoining tract is located directly behind the road frontage, and is 166 acres with an assessed value $213,900. It is listed as Parcel #43759. Accessed value (current use for tax purposes)of 300k and sold for 2.6mil! So, $48,833.03 to date has been paid for a Feasibility Study by company called “CSL” (http://www.cslintl.com/our-company/ ), with over 9 months since the first payment and still no results from this study? Who is paying for the AG Center? School children, municipalities, and the taxpayer! Lauderdale County Schools will lose 240 thousand dollars a year. Florence City Schools will lose 120 thousand dollars a year. Florence and Lauderdale County will lose over 500 thousand a year. The people will pay for a 2-cent gas tax and eventually a 1 cent sales tax! The best I can figure is that by using $1.2 million yearly for the Ag Commission, it should result in a cut of $360,000 to the budgets of Lauderdale County and Florence. I believe the current formula calls for 30% of the TVA money to be shared between the two school systems according to student population - - so I suppose Lauderdale County would get the majority. Work on the Lauderdale County Agricultural Event Center could begin by late summer, Melson said. "We may be doing this thing in phases, but it's going to happen." The center is estimated to cost around $45 million with a bond limit that could service that amount. The proposal calls for a 10,000-seat venue that would double for concerts and other large events. In addition, there's the security of a $2.4 million guaranteed revenue stream through TVA in-lieu-of-tax money and Lauderdale gas tax proceeds. officials hope that construction on the 150,000 square feet main building could get underway by late summer. The feasibility study will help determine what enhancements to the facility are needed, such as the amount of permanent and temporary seating, Hackworth said. The proposal also has received a commitment from the state's two-year college system's Workforce Development Department. Which will include a $25 million workforce development center operated through Northwest-Shoals Community College. The Alabama Legislature has approved a bill allowing Northwest-Shoals to receive up to $5 million in matching funds from the Shoals Economic Development Authority for the workforce training center, and Gov. Kay Ivey has committed another $4 million. The plan from inception two years ago was to have within the center complex an expo/banquet hall building, as well as an outdoor arena and barns to house up to 1,000 stalls. It’s a 2 cent gas tax (about $900,000 per year) to pay the RSA bond. It was supposed to expire when the debt was paid off (currently 2019). They altered the original legislation, added the $5 million from SIDC to give to Northwest Shoals, took the TVA money from the city and schools ($350,000 to $450,000 per year), ran a legal notice and passed it. My comments: They don’t say anything about how big the exhibit and banquet space will be. If the study comes back and says that 10,000 seat arena is not feasible, but a 4,000 seat is I believe they will go with that. (According to google arenas in the range of 7,000 to 12,000 cost around 10,000 dollars per seat) My concern is who pays operating costs how much are they going to be,will the money generated be enough to retire debt and cover Cost going forward. Why the rush to break ground, any ground breaking before November should help Melson in his re-election bid. I would like to see a large arena in the area of 10,000 plus. Their plan just seems like it is only work in progress. Unless they can come up with more complete details and possibly another source of payment at this time I would be against it. They should remember, assessment and value are two different things. I sold my house for $20,000 more than it was assessed. If we look at it purely from the cost side, we would never build ANY money maker. That's why we have been and continue to be small potatoes. Tupelo is smaller than Florence but they kick our ass.Good thing they don't wear steel toed shoes! If they settle on 4000 seats, I will proudly join the ranks of the protesters. Little Flowers Hall holds almost that many. Use the money on a round-about in Anderson instead.
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